Five In, Five Out – Making Changes to the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame

Everyone currently is ensconced in discussions about who will be the Class of 2021 for the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame. I am going to step onto a rail that I often do not like to look, however. Imagine the scenario: suddenly John Sykes, the Chairman of the Rock Hall, has become incapacitated and you have been put in charge as only the third Chairman of the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame. For your first day, you can, on a ONE TIME ONLY basis, add five artists or groups to the Rock Hall. The trick is…you also must remove five artists or groups from the pantheon of rock gods.

Usually, I am not one who enjoys these mental exercises. Besides the fact that it is demeaning to an artist or group that worked their ass off to reach this pinnacle in their career, it also is a worthless use of brainpower because it isn’t going to change anything. At the end of the day, what I am thinking is not going to change what has already gone before – about the only way I am going to fix that is becoming good friends with Doctor Emmett Brown and tooling around in his DeLorean for a few hours.

It is human nature, however, to wonder about an “alternate history,” something that does fascinate me. There are plenty of books out there that offer a supposition of what the course of humanity would have been if a particular point in history changed. It is something that is also done in the military (wargaming is all about trying to deduce what would happen IF), in business and in gaming (figuring out what an opponent will do from different approaches).

One of my favorite streaming shows was The Man in the High Castle, the Amazon Video adaptation of the Philip K. Dick book. In that show, the Axis Powers won the Second World War and divvied up the States of America. A huge chunk of U. S. became a Nazi territory, the Pacific states were occupied by imperial Japan and a thin strip down the Rocky Mountains was left as an “Unclaimed Territory” that was essentially a “no man’s land” for those who looked to continue the war against the Axis. It was a terrifyingly realistic possibility, including the way that Dick saw how easy it would be for “Americans” to turn against their own, especially with a ruling Nazi Party or Imperial Japanese Army occupying the country.

What if the South had won the Civil War? What if John F. Kennedy had not been assassinated? What if 9/11 had not happened? These are things that many minds have considered, some realistically and some for dramatic effect. While it does not even come close to some of these monumental historical events in the human timeline, it is why I decided to change my mind and take on the question of the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame, at least on this occasion.

The only rule I held myself to is that, in my opinion, that the change I was making would be an IMPROVEMENT to the Rock Hall. I am not going to be intellectually lazy and say “(insert artist/group here) isn’t RAWK enough to be inducted” or “they don’t play RAWK music.” People who make this argument are simultaneously intellectually bereft and have no understanding of “rock and roll” history. I’ll try my best to make the argument for whoever I put in and whoever I take out – but it will not be based on the genre of music they do.

Let’s get it started, shall we?

Judas Priest IN – Bon Jovi OUT

There is plenty of other hard rock/metal bands that had much more impact and relevance on the development of the genre than Bon Jovi. A few of them are the aforementioned Judas Priest, Motorhead, Iron Maiden (on the ballot this year), Slayer, Anthrax, and Thin Lizzy, among many others. Judas Priest has, for 50 years, been the standard bearer for the music and, as such, they deserve to receive the acclaim they deserve while they all are still able to enjoy it.

Bon Jovi did little to have an impact on the genre. Basically, all Bon Jovi had was sales, which is not supposed to be a criterion for induction into the Rock Hall. It is reported that, upon hearing that the band had been nominated in 2018, Bon Jovi said “About fucking time.” That is not someone who is showing respect for the honor that induction into the Rock Hall is. If it had been my choice, they would have been waiting for a while longer, if not permanently.

Warren Zevon IN – Laura Nyro OUT

Zevon was one of the developers of the “California sound” that became prevalent in the 1970s. Many of the prominent artists from that decade – Jackson Browne, Linda Ronstadt, The Eagles, Bonnie Raitt, Bruce Springsteen and others – collaborated with him on his and their music or they performed his song. His storytelling and lyrical content were beyond compare; very few writers could come up with the twists of storytelling that Zevon could concoct.

Can you name a song that Laura Nyro had her hands on, either as a songwriter or as a performer? I know Nyro is one of those that is staked to the whipping post when it comes to inductions that the Rock Hall has made, but I have literally gone through her discography and cannot recall ever playing one of her songs or a song she wrote. It seems to me that Nyro was one of those inductions made by the Rock Hall to appear more “artistic.” That isn’t always a good idea.

Tina Turner IN – Stevie Nicks OUT

Tina Turner completely reinvented herself from her 60s image. In the 80s, she became a strong, vibrant performer who completely stunned audiences with the power of her work. It was such a departure from her previously inducted self (with Ike Turner, something that she might want to forget, too) that it more than deserves a second induction as a solo artist.

While Nicks is a tremendous performer, her solo work wasn’t that outstanding, to be honest. Already in with Fleetwood Mac, I do not believe that her solo efforts were that groundbreaking…entertaining, yes, but not groundbreaking. If you do not think Turner is a qualified choice for a second induction, then you would have to argue that Diana Ross as a solo performer was more deserving. Either Turner or Ross should have been the first female double inductee, not Nicks.

Kraftwerk IN – The Lovin’ Spoonful OUT

One of the biggest oversights by the Rock Hall has been its inability to induct the German band Kraftwerk into its hallowed halls. If there is a group that is identified with electronic rock – keyboard-based music – it would be Kraftwerk. Outside of Europe, however, the group had a difficult time finding success, especially in the U. S. This may be the exact reason that they have yet to be inducted into the Rock Hall despite being nominated six times and influencing entire generations of performers with their innovation.

The Lovin’ Spoonful were the beneficiaries of timing. Inducted in 2000, the band was around in an era when the Rock Hall voters were already through the truly immortal artists and were beginning to scramble around a bit to find qualified inductees to honor. In the years prior to the induction of The Lovin’ Spoonful, such questionable choices as Gene Vincent, Lloyd Price, Dusty Springfield, and Del Shannon were ushered into the Rock Hall. Just because you were struggling to come up with inductees should not be a reason to put someone in.

Joan Jett IN – Joan Jett OUT

I am sure that you are looking at that and saying, “How could you do that?” The simple fact is that Jett deserves to be in the Rock Hall. She was just inducted with the wrong group.

Jett’s work with The Runaways was by far more deserving of induction into the Rock Hall than Jett’s work with The Blackhearts (sure the guys in The Blackhearts enjoy hearing someone say that). The Runaways carried on the work of Fanny, The Pleasure Seekers, Janis Joplin, and Grace Slick to the next level – an all-female band that wrote their own stuff and played their own instruments. They were the forerunners to The Go-Go’s, The Bangles, The Donnas and several other all-female groups that have had great success following the glass-shattering by The Runaways.

I would rather see all those that I said should be “in” be inducted in their own right and leave the others in, too. They have earned the right to be called a “Rock & Roll Hall of Fame inductee” regardless of my personal thoughts. But if we are going to play the “alternate reality” game, who would you put in and take out?

Ranking the Nominees for the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame: It’s a BIG Tent…

After a year like we’ve never seen, the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame is trying to get back to business…somewhat. The COVID pandemic that wreaked havoc on last year’s system is beginning to subside, which allows the Rock Hall to move forward with its activities. Along with those changes, however, the Rock Hall is showing that they’re spreading a BIG tent to cover their activities.

First, those changes. In 2019, the Class of 2020 was named and they would have been inducted in ceremonies in April of that year. Because of the pandemic, however, their induction was delayed until November, when it became a virtual party held on HBO. The Rock Hall used this delay to finally get all activities for a given year under a “calendar year” setting – nominations in February, name the class in May, induct in November – that should help in the future.

The changes aren’t just in the timing of certain mileposts on the way to naming the Class of 2021, either. This will be the first year that John Sykes, the former founder of MTV and current executive at iHeart Radio, will serve as the chairman of the Rock Hall. The original chairman and founder of the Rock Hall, Jann Wenner of Rolling Stone fame, resigned from the lead of the organization in January of last year. So, it is now Sykes’ ship to sail and, if the list of nominees for 2021 is any indication, he’s already putting his mark on the building.

For 2021, there are 16 nominees under consideration by the 1000-member strong Voting Committee, made up of the living members of the Rock Hall and a contingent of knowledgeable music veterans – musicians, label executives, historians, journalists, DJs, managers and the Fan Vote, who adds in one vote with the Top Five vote getters from their polling. These votes will be tabulated and, in May, the Rock Hall will announce five or six of these artists as the Class of 2021. They will also probably add at least one more inductee from their non-voting wings of the Rock Hall – the Ahmet Ertegun Award for non-musical industry influencers, the Award for Musical Excellence (formerly the Sidemen category) and the Early Influencers. The AME hasn’t been awarded since 2017, so it is probably due for an inductee.

Without further ado, I present my ranking of the nominees for this year’s honors, but I do have a caveat. My personal feeling on the artist DOES NOT impact whether they will get in or not. In some cases, they will probably get in despite my personal thoughts!

Let’s begin, from the bottom to the top!

16. Dionne Warwick – For the life of me, I’ve been trying to figure out how and why Warwick merited nomination to the Rock Hall. Yes, she’s had an excellent career that dates to the 60s. Yes, she’s recorded a couple of nice songs. But NONE of what she did was what you might call “groundbreaking” or “innovative.” She has a pleasant but not outstanding voice…hell, she doesn’t even have the best voice in her family (that honor would go to her cousin, Whitney Houston). And her best work was in collaborations and rarely on her own talent. This just reeks of “industry insider” BS, and that is not a reason to put someone in the Rock Hall.

15. Fela Kuti – To be brutally honest, I actually said “Who?” when he was announced, then zipped over to Wikipedia to learn more about him. He is a truly amazing individual who took on human rights and political abuses in Nigeria and created his own style of music – Afrobeat. If he is inducted, he would be the first African inductee into the Rock Hall.

With this said, I don’t see it. He had some influence on Talking Heads and Peter Gabriel, among others, but to say he was a seminal part of rock history would be an incredible stretch. Once again, with this said, he is probably going to be inducted. The Roots’ ?uestlove, who is on the Nomination Committee, has long been an advocate for Fela to be honored. Someone with the power of ?uestlove does not use his power to get you nominated unless he is going to use that same power to get you inducted.

14. Mary J. Blige – Definitely one of the preeminent female vocalists in R&B, but I tried to think of one song that she did that just blew me away. I came up with blanks. If they had used this nomination on Queen Latifah, then it would be much higher on the list. Blige seems like a “OK, she got a nomination – that’s enough” selection.

13. Chaka Khan – There have been several attempts to get Khan in with the band she was a part of, Rufus, and those efforts to this point have failed. This is wrong because the band, including Khan, deserves induction. Taken by itself, Khan’s solo career isn’t filled with material that stops you in your tracks.

12. Devo – The Rock Hall has an exceedingly difficult time with several genres. Funk, hard rock/metal and singer/songwriters are a few, but another would be electronic music. To this day, Kraftwerk is still waiting for the call to join in the Rock Hall (outside of Rick Wakeman and maybe Keith Emerson, has anyone used keyboards better?), and I do not expect there to be more love for Devo’s approach. The recently retired Daft Punk is sitting in the shadows watching this one.

11. Carole King – I personally think this is a more sentimental choice by the Rock Hall than a quality one. King’s masterful work, Tapestry, is celebrating its 50th anniversary in 2021 and King is therefore getting more attention. But what did King do outside of Tapestry that made her a monumental figure in the history of rock? She’s already in the Rock Hall, a recipient of the Ahmet Ertegun Award with her songwriting partner Gerry Goffin, some would say that should be the extent of her recognition. Alas, don’t be surprised if she is voted in as a performer come May.

10. Tina Turner – If Turner wasn’t already in the Rock Hall with Ike, then I would be wholeheartedly behind this and it would be ranked much higher. But the tumultuous relationship between Ike and Tina is one that she would probably like to forget, and the Rock Hall would not be at all upset to get away from. Her 80s stylings were a complete departure from her previous heyday, so perhaps a second induction is appropriate for Turner.

9. LL Cool J – Someone who should have been in a lot sooner than this. The man known as James Smith has got another issue that he is going to have to deal with, however. There’s another rapper on the list who is all but a shoo-in to be inducted (more on that in a moment). But LL Cool J is being considered before a whole host of influential rappers that arguably should have been chosen first, including Eric B. & Rakim, Afrika Bambaataa, DJ Kool Herc and Coke La Rock. That’s going to hurt his chances too.

8. Todd Rundgren – There’s a reason that Rundgren is this low on the totem pole. In recent interviews, the multimedia wizard has basically given The Bird to the Rock Hall, stating that it meant nothing to him to be inducted. The Rock Hall has absolutely no problem in abiding by the wishes of those that it is looking to honor – several years ago, Chubby Checker put a full-page ad in many trade magazines, talking about how the Rock Hall “wouldn’t define him.” They’ve never nominated the originator of “The Twist” (although the song was one of the first included in the Singles category at the Rock Hall) and Rundgren faces the same fate if this is truly his sentiment.

7. Iron Maiden – Much like LL Cool J, Iron Maiden is getting the nom over a litany of people who should have already been inducted – Judas Priest, Thin Lizzy, and Motorhead, among others. They have also been quite loud in their distaste for the Rock Hall, so this may be a “one and done” nomination either way – either they’ll get in or they will be cast to the scrapheap because of their protestations. It’s too bad because they are more than deserving to be inducted.

6. Kate Bush – If the Rock Hall were in London, this would have been a no-brainer induction probably 15 years ago. Bush is arguably the most creative force in music from the 70s and 80s and has contributed heavily to the musical culture. Tori Amos, Fiona Apple and Jewel owe her a debt of gratitude for blazing the trail.

5. The Go-Go’s – Flat out, this is the easiest bio to argue of these nominees. The Go-Go’s were the first female band to write their music, play their instruments and go to #1 on the charts with their first album, Beauty and the Beat. They also served as a link between the punk rock of the late 70s to the more “pop” version that was found in The Bangles. A more solid inductee would be hard to find.

4. New York Dolls – Along with 2020 Rock & Roll Hall of Fame inductees Marc Bolan and T. Rex, the New York Dolls carried the banner for glam rock in the early 70s. They have been cited as influential in U. S. punk rock and its hard rock/metal movement. Guns N’ Roses owes a huge debt to the groundbreaking that the Dolls did on the scene.

3. Rage Against the Machine – Merging the worlds of rap, hard rock and political activism together, Rage Against the Machine did more in four albums than most bands do in a lifetime of work. They took the lead from bands like Mr. Bungle and Faith No More and put their political edge to work, bringing a great deal of attention to several causes. Their influence can also be seen in bands in the 21st century, including Papa Roach, Hollywood Undead, and Fever 333.

2. Jay-Z – If there is a reason that LL Cool J will not get inducted in 2021, it would be Mr. Shawn Carter. Jay-Z had an astronomical amount of success and influence in the rap world (my personal favorites are “99 Problems” and “Empire State of Mind” with Alicia Keys), but that wasn’t enough. He became a billionaire through his business acumen. Either one of those would be enough to get him inducted but, when you add in the factor of him performing at the Rock Hall Induction Ceremonies with special guest Beyonce (his wife), the Rock Hall is salivating at the possibilities.

1. Foo Fighters – If there has been any rock band that has carried the genre over the past 25 years, it would be Foo Fighters. Dave Grohl and Company have compiled a resume that hasn’t been equaled, although you can sometimes say that they play it way too safe. Grohl himself could have packed it in after Kurt Cobain’s death and Nirvana’s induction into the Rock Hall, but he chose to blaze his own path further into rock history. If he is inducted with Foos, Grohl would become the 24th person to earn double inductions (to this date, only Eric Clapton has been inducted three times, for his work with The Yardbirds, Cream and his solo career).

Who Is Going to Be Inducted?

The Rock Hall is looking to diversify their membership. That was something that Sykes stated when he took over the chairmanship of the Rock Hall last year. It isn’t an indictment of the Rock Hall’s previous work, but it is time that more women and more minorities were recognized for their contributions to rock history. That is going to be reflected by who is inducted this year.

If you listened to my show at Greater Manchester Rock Radio, I already laid out the list of who I believe will be inducted (and not my rankings above). Jay-Z and Foo Fighters are guaranteed inductees and, if there were two near-locks on the list, I would say that Carole King and Tina Turner will be joining the Rock Hall again. That leaves two more to consider (we will go with six inductees). The Go-Go’s will probably earn one of those two slots. Their history in the industry is just too influential to overlook – but that never stopped the Rock Hall from doing that! For the final slot, and just because I’d love to see what the band would do, I think that Iron Maiden will earn induction. But I wouldn’t at all be shocked if Fela Kuti wound up in somehow for the reasons I presented above.

Who will get in? If it is those artists who have trashed the Rock Hall previously, will they show up? Would it be another farce, such as Steve Miller’s induction in 2016? It would provide a spark to what is the 25th anniversary (the first induction ceremony was 1986) of inductions into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame in 2021!

Artists That SHOULD Be in the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame: The 1980s

RockHall3

We’re only a few days from the announcement of the latest artists and groups that will be named to the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame for 2020. For those that don’t make it in this year, they might be soothed by the idea that they should have many more shots at the brass ring. But who from the past may be running out of chances at getting into the Rock Hall?

Many might say that the truly immortal have already been enshrined and it is tough to nitpick this fact. Over the span of several essays, however, beginning with the 1950s and continuing in examining the 1960s and the 1970s, I’ve pointed out some artists and groups that have been overlooked for the honor of being inducted into the Rock Hall. In this, the final segment of our journey (we’d go on into the 90s, but only artists from 1990-1995 are currently eligible, so we don’t have a full decade to choose from), we’re going to take on a time when the music industry arguably made its biggest changes – the 1980s.

With the death of disco, the rise of New Wave, the “New Wave of British Heavy Metal,” the “popification” of country music and a little thing called Music Television (or MTV), the 80s would arguably be the most artistic time in the history of music (sorry, 70s fans). This decade also challenges what exactly is “rock & roll.” In the past, it could be said that it was defined as a hard guitar and three chords; with the advent of the 1980s, there were so many mashups of genres and different sounds being employed that the lines between genres began to blur. It is part of the reason that there are potentially so many candidates from the decade – and perhaps so many disappointments for fans.

I literally put together a list of artists and groups that, while great, I couldn’t decide whether they should be inducted or not. What do you do with Culture Club? How about X or Siouxsie and The Banshees? Living Colour? The Smithereens? I once again make the statement – this by NO means is a comprehensive list of those who have at the minimum an argument for being inducted. And this doesn’t consider those that have been nominated this year for induction, such as Nine Inch Nails and Depeche Mode. This is a look at arguably the most notable oversights by the Rock Hall to date – and they’ve got some time to change it, but not much.

Duran Duran

DuranDuran

Any list of 1980s artists or groups that should be inducted into the Rock Hall that doesn’t have Duran Duran somewhere near the top should be immediately ignored. The band exemplified the “New Wave” sound that echoed across the ocean from Europe, incorporating the dancier, synthesized “rock” that was becoming very popular at the start of the 80s. Along with other groups like Depeche Mode (nominated the last two years for induction), they were the backbone of the playlist on the burgeoning MTV through the 80s.

They would suffer a bit of a lull as the Grunge Era took over in the early 90s, but Duran Duran – named after a character from the Jane Fonda sci-fi film Barbarella – would reinvent themselves and come back better than ever. A career resurgence in the 90s and early Aughts saw them return as balladeers, with such songs as “Ordinary World” and “Come Undone” showing that the group was willing to change their sound with the times.

While they have been a darling of the fans over the years, the critics have been the shortcoming that possibly keeps Duran Duran out of the Rock Hall. 100 million albums sold in a career should say something, not to mention 21 Billboard Hot 100 hits over a 40-year timespan. But, perhaps showing the power that critical acclaim holds, the group has NEVER been nominated for the Rock Hall – perhaps it is time that fact was changed.

Iron Maiden

IronMaiden

For all the acclaim that Judas Priest has gotten as one of the members of the “New Wave of British Heavy Metal,” and for all the clamor to induct Def Leppard (who weren’t even the BEST example of the NWOBHM roster) last year, there is another band that has been greatly ignored from the discussion. Iron Maiden has arguably been just as influential (if not more so) than Def Leppard and right on the heels of the Priest (who were lumped in with the NWOBHM despite coming out a decade before the term existed) as to the power of their influence. Despite this fact, Iron Maiden has never even sniffed the nomination list for the Rock Hall, and that’s a travesty.

Prior to 1980, hard rock/metal was stuck in a sludge-like monotony and bands like Metallica (inducted LONG ago) and Iron Maiden took a decidedly different direction from their predecessors. Instead of miring in the muck, Iron Maiden picked up the speed and added a virtuosity that wasn’t always evident in hard rock/metal music. With their mascot “Eddie” dominating their album covers and, usually, their stage performances, the Maiden have dominated hard rock/metal for nearly 40 years.

In addition to that touring, Maiden has also shown their power with their fandom. Sixteen studio albums and twelve live albums have sold more than 100 million albums and critics have adored the band, especially most of their early work. The potential downside is that Iron Maiden has never been very “radio friendly” and, thusly, hasn’t achieved a great deal of chart success. This isn’t indicative of how great the band is and why it should be in and arguably should have been inducted long ago.

(On a final note here, this is the time when there is a true test of whether the Rock Hall is going to ever give hard rock/heavy metal its due. Judas Priest and Motörhead have been nominated in 2020 and are fighting to get in. Only ONE of the “Big Four” of the 80s metal scene – Metallica, Megadeth, Anthrax and Slayer – is inducted into the Rock Hall and the odds of the other three getting in are slim and none, with slim heading for the door. Could inductions of some of these artists indicate that the Rock Hall still cares about “rock?”)

The Smiths

TheSmiths

This was one that I had to debate for quite some time. I’ve never been a huge fan of the mopey, “goth” sound, simply because it is so morose, depressing and utterly void of an emotion outside “woe is me.” While I can understand where such writing comes from, that doesn’t necessarily mean that I want to wallow around in it. Thus, I really had to give The Smiths a hard look, especially since there are many others who swear by their work.

They’ve always been a critical darling and, for many fans, The Smiths’ spoke to something inside of them. That is one of the things that rock music is supposed to do – reach in and touch something inside of you. In the case of fans of The Smiths, it helped them through difficult times, told them that someone was experiencing the same issues that they were, and helped them avoid worse outcomes than if they hadn’t heard the band’s music. And honestly, in what universe does The Cure exist in the Rock Hall without their brethren in The Smiths?

Now, Morrissey may not have helped the band’s case with some of the statements he’s made in the past. And it is quite true that someone’s political and personal beliefs and/or actions have kept some nominees out (hi there, Ted Nugent!) or held up their nomination or election. In a perfect world, we’d separate those things away from the artistic side of the equation. In the case of The Smiths, it would be necessary to do to see them get the honor that they do deserve – even though I still don’t care for their music!

Kate Bush

KateBush

Before there was Lady Gaga, before there was Sarah McLachlan, before there was Tori Amos or Enya and even before an ingenue by the name of Madonna was making some noise, there was the ethereal voice of Kate Bush. Beginning in the mid-70s, Bush would provide voice work for Peter Gabriel before striking out on her own. Bush would break through with the angelic “Running Up That Hill” and “Wuthering Heights,” one of the rare instances of classic literature influencing someone’s rock musical stylings (a theme throughout Bush’s catalog). But Bush would also prove to be a groundbreaker in other areas, including synthesizer usage and, well, her being a female voice in a very male dominated business (it could be argued that she is the British equivalent of Pat Benatar, an artist who refused to let the record industry “sex up” her image to sell records).

Highly praised critically, Bush languished on the charts in the States, however. Other than the two songs mentioned previously, Bush had a hard time cracking the Billboard rankings. Still, Bush had huge success in Britain and Europe and continues to be a successful artist to this day. She was nominated for the Rock Hall in 2018 but, as with several other artists that earned only one nomination before being ignored, it seems that the membership of the Rock Hall are more interested in moving on to other more “accessible” artists and groups rather than honor eclectic and creative work from the past in Bush and other artists and groups.

The Go-Go’s/The Bangles

Let’s get beyond the fact that The Runaways should have been inducted and get right to the 80s, shall we?

Women were coming to the fore in the 80s, taking control of their own careers and playing the instruments instead of allowing the men to have all the fun (Ann and Nancy Wilson of Heart have to be added in that category, too, but I digress). And there were two acts that definitely rate getting into the Rock Hall. But if you could have only one of them, which one would it be?

TheGoGos

In my opinion, that would have to be the no-brainer induction of The Go-Go’s. Although their career was relatively short (only five years) and their catalog relatively limited (only four records, three of which were actually impactful), The Go-Go’s were groundbreakers in putting all-female bands into the musical discussion. They were very good musicians, especially guitarist Charlotte Caffey and drummer Gina Schock (what a drummer name!) and, powered by the force of nature that was vocalist Belinda Carlisle, the group was destined for greatness. If they would have stayed together longer (they already had the creative, influential and critical boxes check marked), they arguably would have already been inducted into the Rock Hall.

If you don’t like The Go-Go’s, there’s always The Bangles. From out of the gate with their initial releases of “Hero Takes A Fall” and “Going Down to Liverpool” in 1981, the melodic harmonies and tight musicianship masked a creative and critically successful group of women who were self-assured and didn’t rely on their sexuality to get across. Having said that, they did have singer/guitarist Susanna Hoffs on the mic, which didn’t hurt in getting them attention either. If you were going to have a downside for the group, it would be that they didn’t write their biggest hit “Manic Monday” (a song penned by the then-named “Christopher,” who turned out to be huge Bangles fan Prince).

TheBangles

Looking back at the first three decades (roughly) of the history of rock and those still wrongly on the outside looking in, it is obvious that the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame has gotten it right more often than not. But, as more artists from the 90s and, in only five years, the Aughts start coming eligible, it is going to be tougher and tougher for those in the pre-50s to 80s eras to earn their seat in the Rock Hall. Furthermore, it is going to be tougher and tougher to discern just what is “rock & roll” as the genre lines blur even further. Then again, there is that argument that it is the Hall of FAME and not the Hall of PRETTY GOOD…and perhaps those from those earlier eras fall into the category of “pretty good” rather than the truly immortal.

Turning Back the Clock with New Releases from Bruce Springsteen, Prince

CREATOR: gd-jpeg v1.0 (using IJG JPEG v62), quality = 100

If it seems like you’ve stepped into the DeLorean from the movie Back to the Future when you look at the Billboard Album charts, you would be correct. Later this week, Madonna’s new record Madame X will ascend to the top of the charts. Likewise, veteran rocker Bruce Springsteen will be there in the second slot with a collection of western swing and acoustic tunes on his album Western Stars. Finally, the late Prince will make his own appearance as his estate releases his Originals CD, a collection of demos that the Purple One performed and gave to other artists for their own success.

All three of these artists were highly influential on the development of MTV – you know, that channel that used to show music videos before it devolved into a reality show hub of hedonistic and oversexed muscle heads from New Jersey and knocked up teenagers before they head to porn to make a living. And Madge and “The Boss” have been in this position before – in 1985, with her Like a Virgin album taking down his Born in the U.S.A. in February of that year. Since I’ve never had a great affection for Madge, however, we’re going to focus on the two men in this look back in time, Prince and Springsteen, and what they bring to the table.

PrinceOriginals

For better or worse, the late Prince’s estate is continuing to release materials from “The Vault,” which supposedly contained thousands of Prince’s outtakes from studio sessions that either he never felt should be released, that he didn’t consider good enough for release or that he felt he could still work on and improve. Last year, The Prince Estate released Piano and a Microphone 1983, a stark piece of work that showed Prince’s creative process but also highly early drafts of songs he could have made better. Reviews for that were mixed because of these facts and those arguments will be revived for his new CD.

On Originals, The Prince Estate has cobbled together 15 songs that Prince originally wrote and put down on tape, but then did the unexpected. Whether he planned on it (and, with some of the songs, it was planned) or whether it was out of the blue, Prince gave the songs and, perhaps most importantly, the credit for creation to other artists. This is unheard of in the industry; the most valuable right that an artist can have is the songwriting credit, which gives a lifetime of royalties for performance and playback.

The CD begins with two songs that were readily recognizable as Prince songs but were made famous by others. “Sex Shooter” (done in the move Purple Rain by Apollonia 6) and “Jungle Love” (performed OUTSTANDINGLY by Morris Day and the Time in the same film) sound as if they could have come off the movie soundtrack. While “Sex Shooter” sounds more come hither with Apollonia and her backing singers, Prince does give the structure of the song. The same can be said for “Jungle Love,” but it is arguable that Day and Jesse Johnson, the guitarist on the song, provided the swagger that it would eventually earn.

The third song on the CD is arguably the most noteworthy of the songs on the collection and shows how artists collaborate well. “Manic Monday,” which an infatuated Prince gave to Susanna Hoffs of the Bangles, is a powerful piece of pop craftsmanship in the hands of the Purple One. All Hoffs and the Bangles had to do was fill in some blanks, changing some of the piano tracks and adding in the four-part harmonies that they were famous for.

What are the jewels of Originals, however, are the lesser-known tracks. Tunes that were recorded by Vanity 6 (“Make-Up”), Mazarati (“100MPH”) and – believe it or not – Kenny Rogers (“You’re My Love”) could have used a little support from their Creator, but he was happy to just be able to try to help his proteges/friends. And, to finish off the record, the simply amazing recording of his version of the song he would give not only to Sinead O’Connor (and would make her an international superstar) but also to The Family, “Nothing Compares 2 U” closes the album with a smash.

Even though I am an unabashed Prince fan, I STILL feel a sense that we aren’t supposed to be hearing these pieces, however. Much like when Microphone came out last year, it almost seems as if you’re infringing on the private thoughts and noodling of an artist in a creative process, not someone who was laying down a track for the public to hear. On these songs, Prince was giving the framework to the performers who would later make them smashes. He WASN’T doing it for himself and he probably never intended for them to be heard, content in staying in the shadows and allowing his friends to shine on their own.

Does this mean I am going to stop purchasing the new releases when The Prince Estate puts them out? HELL NO! Originals is an outstanding piece of musical history and, arguably, should have been released last year instead of Microphone. It shows that Prince was quite altruistic with his creative output (for whatever reason that may be) and it did help some artists become big and big artists become huge because of his involvement. It also shows that he could have made these songs hits on his own, but he decided they were better in the hands of others – truly a man who knew his boundaries.

SpringsteenWesternStars

Another performer also known for letting other artists make hits out of his songs is Bruce Springsteen. Such artists as Patti Smith and 10,000 Maniacs (“Because the Night”), Manfred Mann’s Earth Band (“Blinded By the Light”), the Pointer Sisters (“Fire”) and even the late Natalie Cole (“Pink Cadillac”) have recorded his songs, entrenching him as one of the great songwriters of our time. But artists are going to have a hard time remaking anything from “The Boss’” most recent work.

Western Stars is a love letter from Springsteen to the “California sound” of music from the 70s that fused country and rock into a softer sound. To be honest, though, it misses the mark in that area. It isn’t an ode to the sounds of Fleetwood Mac, Jackson Browne, the Eagles and Linda Ronstadt; in fact, it’s difficult to determine just WHAT sound Springsteen is going for on the CD.

Springsteen uses way too much orchestration for it to be a “country rock” album in the vein of those 70s artists. But it doesn’t quite reach all the way to country music nor western swing music. There seems to be but one reason for the CD to be in existence…Springsteen’s gravitas as an artist.

It isn’t like Springsteen hasn’t done some off the beaten path material in the past. After the success of The River, people were expecting a massive smash from “The Boss.” Instead, Springsteen gave them a stark, four-track album of acoustic material that was artistically outstanding in Nebraska. He would repeat this style of acoustic music a little more than a decade later on The Ghost of Tom Joad (the title an homage to John Steinbeck’s novel The Grapes of Wrath about the western dust bowls of the 1930s).

SpringsteenWestern

But this effort from Springsteen lacks something. On both Nebraska and Tom Joad, there was a heart and a passion to the music that made it sound like Springsteen was invested in the work. With Western Stars, it sounds like Springsteen is going through the motions, not really putting his all into the music and content to tread the same musical boards he’s walked before.

This isn’t to say that there aren’t some good pieces among the 13 tracks on the CD. “The Wayfarer,” “Drive Fast (The Stuntman)” and “Chasin’ Wild Horses” evoke some of what Springsteen might have been attempting to do with the album. The rest, though, have an overdone quality, especially with the sweeping orchestral arrangements that you never heard on a Jackson Browne or Warren Zevon (another troubadour responsible for the “California sound”) song.

At 69, Springsteen has earned the right to do whatever the fuck he wants to do when it comes to his music. And, if you’re like me, you’ll be there to pick it up when he puts it out for the public. But for those who were looking at Western Stars as an album in the strain of the Eagles or some other stalwart of the “California sound,” you’ll be a bit disappointed.

If I Were the President of the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame…

RRHallofFame

Next weekend, the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame will open up the doors of its enclave for the 31st time to induct new members into its midst. Holding their ceremonies at the Barclays Center in Brooklyn, NY, this Friday (April 8), this year’s inductees are quite eclectic, with some of them well deserved and overdue – such as Chicago and Deep Purple – some riding a wave of popularity due to recent attention – the gangsta rap pioneers N.W.A. – and two choices that were a bit surprising – Cheap Trick and Steve Miller. As with many of the ceremonies past, there is a bit of drama as to the festivities.

When it comes to Deep Purple, which incarnation of the band will be inducted? Much of the attention has been given to the late 1960s/early 1970s incarnations – the Mark 1 through Mark 3 versions of the band that featured musicians such as Jon Lord on keyboards, Ian Gillian on vocals, Ritchie Blackmore on guitar, Roger Glover on bass and Ian Paice on drums. Not so much attention has been given to the later renditions of the band that featured future Whitesnake vocalist David Coverdale, so we can pretty much count on the factor that the group of men who gave us milestone classics like “Space Truckin’,” “Smoke on the Water” and “Highway Star” are the ones that the Hall will be inducting.

The second story is will the entirety of Cheap Trick reunite for the show? In 2010, drummer Bun E. Carlos had a rather acrimonious split with singer Robin Zander, guitarist Rick Nielsen and bassist Tom Petersson, one that actually ended up in a courtroom (apparently the three men tried to cut Carlos out of his rightful piece of royalties from the band’s work…the trio lost the case). Since then, the men haven’t spoken, but they will apparently put aside the animosity and play for one night only. According to Nielsen, Carlos “is going to play the inductions because they’re inducting the people who made the records…he deserves it.”

I always get a little reflective when the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame ceremonies come up, mostly because I think there are several people there that shouldn’t be inside the walls without a ticket. Over the 31 years that the voters have put people into this hallowed sanctum, they have besmirched the walls with some who haven’t earned the right to be there. If, for one day, I were the President of the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame, I would remove these five members forever, correcting the wrongs of the past:

The Beach Boys (1988)

Probably one of the most overrated acts ever in the annals of U. S. music history, all the Beach Boys were is a doo-wop group who moved off the street corner and onto the beach. Their sound had already been created (unless you forgot Dick Dale, another erroneous non-entry into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame) and they very rarely deviated from a set pattern:  beach, surf, multiple girls (you might throw a car in there on a rare occasion). Lather, rinse, repeat. There was nothing that was groundbreaking about them at all; even their supposed masterpiece, Pet Sounds, was Brian Wilson looking to duplicate what producer Phil Spector had done with his “Wall of Sound.”

Madonna (2008)

Madonna

By far the most egregious error in the voting annals of the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame committee. That Madonna got in the Hall before such people as Alice Cooper, Dr. John, The Crickets (Buddy Holly’s backing band), Heart, Rush and Albert King (just to name a few) is a miscarriage of justice beyond measure. Furthermore, there is no way that you can tell me with a straight face that Madonna had ANY impact on the development of rock music – if the category was POP music, then yes, Madonna’s fingerprints are all over it (hello there, Lady Gaga!). But this is the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame and, last I checked, nobody is naming her as a significant influence.

Donovan (2012), Bill Withers (2015) and Steve Miller (2016)

Unfortunately, all of these men fall into the same category:  they all are pretty good at what they did. The problem is we are not electing people into the “Hall of Pretty Good.” This is the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame, people!

I know this might sound sacrilegious, but while Withers’ works were memorable (“Ain’t No Sunshine,” “Lean on Me” and “Just the Two of Us” are all outstanding songs), he just didn’t have enough of them. This also could be said for Donovan; name me another song he did outside of “Sunshine Superman” and “Mellow Yellow?” You might be able to sway my thoughts on Miller, but I believe that he’s getting more of a vote on his pedigree (studying at the feet of the legendary Les Paul and Mary Ford as a child will get you those types of votes) than on any outstanding works he wrote or performed. These three men just don’t meet the criteria for what I would call “Hall of Fame material.”

Now that five places in the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame have opened up, who should be inducted into those slots? I’m glad you asked. As the President of the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame, these five artists/bands will be the ones who will take over their rightful places. I’m completely blown away that they aren’t there already, to be honest:

The Runaways

Although Joan Jett is in the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame along with her band The Blackhearts, they needed to go back a bit further to actually encapsulate the first band that broke Jett onto the rock scene. The Runaways were the first female hard rock band to enter the scene, led by vocalist Cherie Currie and the dual guitar attack of Lita Ford and Jett (little known fact is that Mikki Steele, who was a member of The Bangles, was originally the bassist for the group). Svengali Kim Fowley pushed the group as a “teenage jailbait” band, but their music was actually pretty damn good. Most known for their hit “Cherry Bomb,” The Runaways were huge stars in Japan and did pretty well in Europe. In the United States, they were before their time, but their members would go on to bigger success as solo artists.

Pat Benatar

Are you fucking kidding me? One of the most successful female rock artists of all-time, definitely one of the Top 50 artists of the 1980s, isn’t in the Hall of Fame yet?

Pat Benatar (who, to the best of my knowledge, has NEVER EVEN BEEN NOMINATED) followed up on the heels of The Runaways, carrying the banner for women in rock with an unapologetic, no-nonsense approach to the genre. Where Benatar took it a step further was she was the one in charge of her career – she didn’t bow to the dictates of a manager and she definitely didn’t kowtow to the record companies. On her VH1Behind the Music,” the story is famously told about the record executives that Benatar famously took down because they tried to sexualize her style early in her career. Perhaps that is why she hasn’t gotten the kudos she’s due…the record industry is still holding a grudge against her. And name me another hard rock singer who has a four-octave range and is classically trained?

Warren Zevon and Jimmy Buffett

You might be saying, “What makes these two guys different than those three you threw out above?” There’s plenty that makes them different!

In the case of Buffett, he literally created a genre of music that didn’t exist before he came along – tropical rock, or “trop rock,” a fusion of so many musical stylings that it is literally impossible to list them all (if you haven’t listened to a Buffett album or been to a Buffett concert and heard at least six musical styles, you must expand your musical knowledge) – and still is at the top of his game more than 40 years after hitting the road. He has a catalog of music that has inspired a host of entertainers today, such as Kenny Chesney, the Zac Brown Band and others from the U. S. and around the world. Finally, he’s a shrewd businessman, turning his biggest song – “Margaritaville” – into a mega-empire that includes restaurants, casinos, a clothing line and a Sirius XM radio station. That “empire” is now a private company that is thought to make hundreds of millions of dollars per year – that’s a nice nest egg to sit back on!

Zevon, who unfortunately passed away in 2003, probably did more for others’ careers than he did his own. He wrote songs that were hits for Linda Ronstadt and worked closely with Jackson Browne and The Eagles before finding some acclaim on his own. Always more of a critical darling, Zevon’s album Excitable Boy (his most commercial effort) brought Zevon’s biggest hit, “Werewolves of London,” while the remainder of his works on the album (including “Roland the Headless Thompson Gunner” and “Lawyers, Guns and Money”) showed his eclectic side. The remainder of his catalog presented an extremely diverse and talented artist who entertained and challenged his audience. Overall, he is highly respected in the music industry for his artistry, his passion and his individuality, things that the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame is supposed to honor.

Judas Priest

With both Chicago and Deep Purple going in this year and with KISS entering in 2014, you might think that there wouldn’t be any more “fan outrage” over artists not being in the Hall. That would be inaccurate, however, until the omission of Judas Priest is corrected.

Judas Priest has, for almost 40 years, been at the forefront of the hard rock/heavy metal genre, carrying the baton from the Led Zeppelin/Deep Purple/Jimi Hendrix/Black Sabbath early days of the game. With singer Rob Halford (or without, as the days of Tim “Ripper” Owens didn’t slow them down any) and the dual guitar attack of Glenn Tipton and K. K. Downing, the definitive style of Judas Priest is recognizable anywhere. They also have been heavily influential in the genre, with such bands as Pantera, Metallica and the New Wave of British Heavy Metal (NWBHM) of the 80s citing them as heroes.

There’s a whole litany of artists and groups I could get into that deserve a place in the pantheon of rock, but my day as President of the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame is done. I’ll be watching the induction ceremonies on Friday night (or whenever the hell they’ll be on – thanks HBO!) and celebrating the music of the inductees for 2016. Then it will be time to consider who will be inducted for 2017 and the madness will begin again.

So Who SHOULD Be In The Rock & Roll Hall of Fame?

Last week, the nominations came out for the 2016 Rock & Roll Hall of Fame and, at the very end of my thoughts, I posited the question, “Who should have been nominated?” Mind you, the list of nominees was outstanding overall: longtime overlooked acts such as Chicago, Deep Purple and Yes getting nominated again (and three bands that I believe are long overdue the honor), newcomers like Janet Jackson, The Cars and Cheap Trick (all no votes) and outside shots such as The J.B.’s (another vote in from me), Chic (no) and N.W.A. (yes). However, there were several other artists that should have been on this year’s ballot if not already inducted into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame.

The Rock & Roll Hall of Fame is personal to me because of my long love affair with music. Despite the factor that I could never play an instrument with any high level of competence, I admire those that can create art out of music, words, melodies and thoughts. While it could be said that writing is something like that, the songwriter and/or musician is an artist that encompasses different aspects, pulling them into one cohesive idea. Thus, I’ve always been a huge fan of music overall and rock music in particular.

My first introduction to rock music dates back to someone who, unfortunately, I don’t know if they’re still alive. The year was 1971 and, riding around in a car with my half-brother Monty (his real name could have been Montague, don’t really remember) on a hot summer day, saw him pop a cassette into the tape deck. Suddenly the mystifying tones of David Bowie’s “Space Oddity” came pounding out of the speakers and, as I listened to the words and music, I was transported (you have to remember, these were the heady days of NASA’s Apollo space program) to being “Major Tom” and traveling through space myself.

From there, it was a quick indoctrination into the world of music. My mother had the classics – Johnny Cash, Merle Haggard, Waylon and Willie and others – from the country music side, but she also had such gems as The Temptations, The Supremes and other R&B acts from the 60s in the record cabinet. My investigations in the rock music genre touched on Santana, The Who, Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young and James Taylor, then began to branch out into the harder edged rock of ZZ Top, KISS and Led Zeppelin, among others (on a personal note, was always more of a Rolling Stones guy than the Beatles).

As the mid-70s passed, punk rock became the next touchstone. The Sex Pistols, New York Dolls, The Ramones – these were the gates to pass through on the way to adulthood. As I reached high school, not only was it the disco era but it was almost time for the double shotgun-blast of the New Wave from England and MTV, opening the world even further (and we cannot go on without also recognizing the New Wave of British Heavy Metal). As I had to be a part of the music scene, I did the only logical thing a person with little to no musical talent could do – I became a DJ.

Through the 1980s and well into the 1990s, I plugged along as a DJ at pretty much every radio format that you could think of doing. Album-Oriented Rock (AOR), Top 40, easy listening, R&B, adult contemporary, news/talk – about the only thing I didn’t do was country (much like “country” music today, there’s a thin line between what was country music then and pop music). Along the way, there were some great times had in the conduct of my job and…well, let’s just save those stories for another time.

Hopefully you see that who gets in the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame is important, at least to me. It isn’t “live or die” important, mind you, but it is something that I want to show my son one day and say, “Yeah, I saw them, they were great.” Maybe we will sit down and listen to a CD or, pray tell, if we still have vinyl by then, an album, and talk about music and its history. He’s got a great musical ear, however, so he may be entertaining me with his music rather than our just listening to it.

OK, getting sappy here…

My criteria for putting someone in the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame would be somewhat along the lines of what poker uses for its Hall of Fame. These are the criteria that I would use in putting someone in the Rock Hall:

1. Length of career with sustained critical or commercial excellence
2. Influence on a genre of music or on several artists
3. Respect from fellow musicians

Pretty simple, wouldn’t you say? Alas, there are some glaring errors in the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame. How about some of these artists, bands and contributors?

Warren Zevon – The singer-songwriter born in Chicago has been overlooked for far too long when it comes to the Rock Hall. Responsible for writing such songs as “Poor, Poor Pitiful Me” (covered by far too many artists to list but most notably by Rock & Roll Hall of Fame inductee Linda Ronstadt), Zevon was a part of the California scene in the mid-70s, working with such people as Jackson Browne, Neil Young, members of the Eagles and counting Bruce Springsteen amongst his admirers.

When it came to his own efforts, Zevon was beyond compare. Along with his iconic “Werewolves of London,” Zevon penned and performed such classics as “Lawyers, Guns and Money,” “Roland the Headless Thompson Gunner,” “Accidently Like a Martyr,” and “Keep Me in Your Heart,” which was nominated for a Grammy after Zevon’s death in 2003. With a career that spanned more than 30 years, commercial and critical success and the respect of your fellow musicians, there’s no one more deserving than Zevon for induction into the Hall.

Jimmy Buffett – Another product of the singer-songwriter era of the early 70s, Buffett is notable for forging his own path in the music industry. When I say his own path, I mean he created a whole GENRE of music that didn’t exist before – let’s call it “tropical rock,” music with a Caribbean/calypso/reggae/country feel that didn’t fit neatly into any of the “categories” of music in the 1970s (and still doesn’t today, to be honest). Buffett himself has said about that period, “I wasn’t country enough to be played on those stations and I wasn’t rock enough to be played on AOR.”

The way to beat that? Write a song like “Margaritaville” that transcended any charts, genres or radio stations. Today that song has led Buffett into the world of literature, casino and hotel ownership and a “40-year summer job” that the man still enjoys to this day as he approaches 70. He’s influenced a host of country musicians (the Zac Brown Band is a prime example) and, as owner of a recording studio and a record company (Mailboat Records) is ensuring that the “tropical rock” he created will have outlets for the future.

The Runaways – While Joan Jett went in with The Blackhearts last year, she really should have gone in with The Runaways because, without them, there is no Joan Jett.

The Runaways were “created” by producer Kim Fowley who, having drummer Sandy West and guitarist Jett in the fold, was looking to create a “jailbait” band of teenaged girls who could rock out just as well as any group of guys. First found by the group was Micki Steele, who didn’t last long but went on to join The Bangles, before gold was struck with guitar virtuoso Lita Ford, vocalist Cherie Currie and bassist Jackie Fox to fill out the roster. With the group lineup set, The Runaways broke ground as one of the first female hard rock/metal acts to ever have any success in the recording industry.

From the seminal track “Cherry Bomb” to other tunes such as “Queens of Noise” and “I Love Playin’ with Fire” (covered by Jett during her Blackheart days), the band earned a great deal of attention and respect in the industry. The members of the group went on to arguably better success as solo artists or in other creative endeavors, but they were the ones who helped to get such groups as The Bangles, The Go-Gos, Vixen and rock “chicks” like Pat Benatar, Chrissie Hynde and Deborah Harry (among many others) in the door. It is arguable that, without The Runaways, some if not all of these women wouldn’t have gotten into the industry.

Judas Priest – This is one of those omissions by the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame that is inexcusable. A band that has sold 45 million albums, generated rock anthems such as “Breaking the Law,” “You’ve Got Another Thing Comin’,” “Heading Out To The Highway,” “Living After Midnight”…I could go on, but you get the point. So what has kept them out?

Over the years, the band has been targeted in various arenas outside of music. They were accused of using subliminal messages in their album British Steel that allegedly caused two men to try to kill themselves. They’ve been targeted by conservative Christian groups for their musical content and singer Rob Halford has taken some sabbaticals from the band over the decades. But when you have a list of bands that were influenced by you such as Metallica, Megadeth and Pantera (among others), you’ve done your job well.

There are a slew of other artists that could be held up for consideration – The Carpenters, Kate Bush, Slayer, Bon Jovi, Thin Lizzy, Motorhead – and maybe they are just waiting for their time. There are also those “pop” artists that I am overlooking, but this is the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame, after all. If you’re waiting for a time that “works,” however, take it from someone who watches how these Halls of Fame work – if you don’t get in within your first couple of years of eligibility, your chances of getting in get worse as time goes by. All the artists listed here deserve to have their place in the pantheon of the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame…now will anyone listen and induct them?